Curse

Longasc · Nov 19, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

The use of superior runes and major runes is greatly limited.

It is a trade-off between higher attribute levels and the ability to spread them better to reach breakpoints, for some 35 to 75 health points.

Then we have specialized builds that use multiple superior runes, think of the many 55 HP monk variants. If these builds are exploitive, good or bad, is subject to debate.

My suggestion: Remove the HP penalty from superior and major runes, but limit their numbers

1 Superior Rune at maximum
or
2 Major Runes at maximum

If Vigor runes should be affected, too, could be debated.

* This would strengthen primary classes, as they have access to runes
* Bring back Sup/Major runes into PvP. So far, the HP loss is considered unfavorable and the rune type might as well not exist
* It would destroy low-hp farming builds like the 55 HP monk

For GW1, this idea is probably too late. But maybe it has some merit for GW2.

Antheus · Nov 19, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

I fail to understand why -HP is a problem.

Better yet - if you remove HP penalty, there's no need for 3 different runes anymore - just use superiors for everything. And after you do that, just grant +3 to all attributes. And once you do that, might as well remove the whole thing, and just rescale all skills to 0..12.

Quote:

The use of superior runes and major runes is greatly limited.

No, it's not.

Quote:

It would destroy low-hp farming builds like the 55 HP monk

Why destroy it? 55 is so 2 years ago.

Edit: nm, I noticed the character name.

Longasc · Nov 19, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

I fail to understand why -HP is a problem.

Better yet - if you remove HP penalty, there's no need for 3 different runes anymore - just use superiors for everything.

(...)

Edit: nm, I noticed the character name.

You just did not read the part where the number of superior runes was limited to ONE.

And sorry, what is wrong with my character name?

legion_rat · Nov 19, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

dont see the problem with runes. I think the -hp adds balance to the +1,2,3 to skills. All my heros have majors except olias who has sup death.

and let the mods catch it the name it will prob make them smile

~the rat~

Cebe · Nov 19, 2007, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Since this is "more of an idea for GW2" perhaps it should have been posted in the Guild Wars 2 Suggestion Thread.

It seems to me that basically all this will achieve is to kill off the 55HP monk?

EinherjarMx · Nov 19, 2007, 09:12 AM // 09:12

/notsigned, if you want to do "more" damage there must be a trade off,

jrk247 · Nov 19, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

This is a bad idea.

Do I even have to explain why?

Longasc · Nov 19, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

This is a bad idea.

Do I even have to explain why?

Yes, you bothered to post, now you have to make a point.

arcanemacabre · Nov 19, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

I think the limit thing is a good idea - that alone would kill the 55. Still, there is a basic game balance in the health penalties that should remain in GW1. Now, GW2... well we don't even know if they're keeping the rune system. It may end up being an entirely different armor mod system, who knows?

pumpkin pie · Nov 19, 2007, 10:36 AM // 10:36

nah, i like my 55 monk. i bought an extra account just to make one, when the options to purchase slots are not implemented.... and you want to kill him. my poor monk...

Alex Morningstar · Nov 19, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

-hp is only a problem if you don't know how to kite. +hp are for those that don't know how to kite.

Solution: If you have HP problems, fix your build/playstyle. You don't need 8 attacks on one bar.

glountz · Nov 19, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Sup runes were less a problem when you could headpiece-swap in PvP and before Nightfall damage power creep (even in PVE).
Now they are just not worth it. Majors are still scarsely used when you need to reach some attributes breakpoints.
Solution: Do not remove HP penalty, but lower it to balance with post-Nightfall damage.
Sup: -50 HP; Maj: -25HP, Min:-5HP (never understood why minors didn't have a HP loss. That makes minors always beneficial than no runes).

arcanemacabre · Nov 19, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

(never understood why minors didn't have a HP loss. That makes minors always beneficial than no runes).

With th advent of Vitae runes, technically, they do have a downside - you lose the +10 health (or shorter condition duration, or +2 energy, whatever you would rather take). So you have to weigh that with +1 to attribute.

I do think that maybe a lowered cost overall is a decent idea.... maybe.

BlueNovember · Nov 19, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Morningstar

-hp is only a problem if you don't know how to kite. +hp are for those that don't know how to kite.

Solution: If you have HP problems, fix your build/playstyle. You don't need 8 attacks on one bar.

OT:
Yup, this is why all monks and casters in gvg run 480hp with radiant insignias.
Or not. :P

On topic:
Is your suggestion that one can have either 1 sup, 2 majors, or 3+ minors? That's interesting, certainly. Most of the cons have already been mentioned;
It would kill of the 55 build and thus alienate a _large_ amount of the community,
It favours classes that only generally only use one major attribute (Elementalists, Necros)
More people would run sup runes so balance would change as more break-points are reached on currently-used skills

Interesting, but /not-signed here, for reasons above.

MithranArkanere · Nov 19, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Hehe... just make the HP downside wrk only in PvP and done, XD.

55HP killed, XD.

I assure you that superior runes are used in PvP.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 19, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

The -hp from Sup runes isn't a big deal as you should only be -150hp tops. More than 2 Sup runes equals no Rebirth at 60dp and is just plain overkill. That happened in a pug I was in in UW the other day. *lol* Alot of people underestimate the power of Major and Minor runes. Sometimes you only need 9-12 in a certain attribute for it to be good.

Div · Nov 19, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

What a horrible idea. If it's your attempt to kill 55 monks, you fail. The sup/major runes exist as tradeoffs that people can make to become stronger in battle. Under your system, there's little variety and everyone will be only able to run a certain amount of them.

natural sugar · Nov 19, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens

The -hp from Sup runes isn't a big deal as you should only be -150hp tops. More than 2 Sup runes equals no Rebirth at 60dp and is just plain overkill. That happened in a pug I was in in UW the other day. *lol* Alot of people underestimate the power of Major and Minor runes. Sometimes you only need 9-12 in a certain attribute for it to be good.

-150 is a pretty high cap. I can't see any situation where more than 1 Superior (or any superior, for that matter) is necessary aside from specific builds like 55/330 HP.

As for the suggestion, sorry but its a terrible idea. I can't see anything worthwhile coming out of this, /notsigned.

ValaOfTheFens · Nov 19, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural sugar

-150 is a pretty high cap. I can't see any situation where more than 1 Superior (or any superior, for that matter) is necessary aside from specific builds like 55/330 HP.

To get the most out of some builds you need 2 Sup runes on your armor. I use a Sup Curses and a Sup Soul Reaping rune on my Curses armor so I could just funnel the leftover AP into Blood Magic as I need high Blood Magic for my Curses builds(Awaken the Blood, etc). Its not required but it gives you more versatility.

Arkantos · Nov 19, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

The -hp is there for balance and it should stay that way. Destroying farming builds is pretty lame too. It's not like people make alot of money farming these days anyways. Let them have their pocket gold. Sorry but I think this is a pretty bad idea.